Quote:

You know Holley, I dont' even really know anymore. I am not a dev and sometimes ya'll just talk in cicules and I get lost. I will support whatever the devs decided as long as it brings drivers to Aros. Really, that is all I want. I want people to just be able to download it and use it, within reason. I know that Windows type of support is not possiable. But, Linux has come a long way in drivers, if we can use those, I am sure it would help until Native versions of the drivers can be done. I think that if the system could use Native if avaliable and not native if a native one isn't would be great. If that means hosted with Aros on top, ok. If that means making Aros be able to use Linux drives by doing the modular kernal, ok too. If means, setting Rabbit Ears on top of the monitor to make it work, that is ok also.

To Mr Cat

I try to look at things from a dev POV as much as I can. I am not a total non-dev. I can do some C# and love my VB, but what I know and can do is nothing compared to what Aros needs. So, to a very limited extent I understand. I also understand that you should not wait till you need something to get started on it. I figure something like this, to do it right, will take time and testing. Getting started now will give it a fighting chance to be ready by the time other things are coming around. I think TCP/IP will be done long before something like this could be finished but I was trying to think further down the road. If things keep up the way they have I would image that 2005 is going to be good year for Aros. We would really need hardware support ready to go if it were to get off the ground. That said, I don't think that Aros has to support everthing under the sun. Amiga has always been a niche OS and Aros will be no different. So, a reasonably sutiable set of drivers is in order. My thinking is that if Linux can support so can Aros. Now, how to make that happen without having to recode every last dirver with the limited number of resources is the big quesiton.

P.S I am planning on adding 20-30 to the basic Warnderer bouty. If you think that it is not too much maybe we can add more to it. I don't want to make it too overwhelming though. Dont' want someone to look at and go. All that for just that amount, no way. I want it to be reasonable.

I agree with your parting comments, drag & drop, saving window/icon positions, etc is something that would make a drastic improvement to native HD installs.

Quote:I thought that was one of the things you were asking about (the modular kernel to use GPL code). Was that X driver wrapper for native to go with this, or was it for Hosted but giving control of the video to AROS?

well, im not sure what is better dfb or X..its something that should be talked with the REAL devs.

dragndrop, icons to desktop are some really nice things to ask (i didnt inlcude those in my wandere bountie cause i didnt put a nice ammount on it)

tcp/ip is in the way!

and once more, yes gfx drive is are bottleneck...but i think the only best way is progressive and slow.

i dont remember o wrap for other linux driver besides the gfx driver...but for hosted could be, like bsdsocket bridge as we have oss.library...but that are kind of things that just happen...you dont need to spark it.

the better thing in boutie, imo, is try to encourage start of things that will not happen naturally soon, to make strategics things like the nvidia driver and the ac97 one!

i know you have a very user-centric pov, but as you say, we need more dev, that is why i think a native dev-env would be cool. after we have tcp/ip and a native dev-env we will have a real needs of things (as we can use aros in dailly basis), so people will begin to try things for solve their issue...for example a scrollbar in the shell can be very usefull! ;o)

i think you got the orverall ideia and is now able to make your bountie aware of what you are doing!

ps: the difficulty of the bounty should be considered too, imo, those wanderer updates are low (not mean easy, as easy for me is port sdl apps) drivers are medium and the posix stuff and the linux drivers wrapper are high.

otoh, still has things to fix, instead of implement...we have problems with our gfx driver (16 bit), and probably in other fields that im not aware (you got issues with your nvida for example)so you can mix in your bounties difficulties hard/easy and implements/fixes!

Yes CoolCat, you have helped quite a bit. And I am thankful for the explaination.

This Friday I will add some to both wander bounties, hopefully this will help. I will wait till TCP/IP is done to see if I need to start a bounty for drivers. I have an NVida chipset but I think it uses a realtek driver. On the other had I don't think the onboard Nic (realteck) is good on that board and am now using a DLink. Oh the fun... So, I will take a look and see....

My main reason for this whole mess is. Hardware, hardware, hardware. There just are not many devs and they don't have a lot of time to even write drivers even there is a bounty.

My intention is not displace Native. Just to take some of, gotta have drivers, gotta have all sorts of drivers, presure off the devs and allow more people to be able to use a more "navtive" Aros. I will support anything that makes drivers eaiser until completely native version can be done... Graphics drivers seem to be the hardest to get done. so, maybe an X wraper will be a good idea?? Would a DFB wraper be better?? Who knows?

The devs working on Aros, you and everyone else are doing an incrediable job, a truly incrediable job. Using Aros is like coming home...to an OS that you use and not one that uses you.

But, I will stand by one thing. I see so many good ideas come, get talked about and then dropped. There was talk about getting Aros to be able to use just plain Linux drivers also (like Nic drivers and such) without actually having to sit on top on Linux. That came and went...without so much of a "see ya"

I am sure it was discussed by the devs, but no one on the outside heard anything. I know we out are not "entitled" to expalinations or such. But it just kind of leaves you hainging...in limbo....not really knowing what is going on....

I think that people get all worked up about Aros and the progess "seeming" slow because there really is interest out there. Having spent time using Aros-Max I have larned that it Warnder may not be over functional, but under the hood there is a lot going on.

Look how many downloads of the various Aros-Max!! Can you image what will happen with TCP/IP? It is going to wild, and I will be there going wild with everone else.

I would really like to see Wander more functional before the next Aros-Max. I don't know if a bouty is necessary or not. Need things like drag and drop, add icons to desktop etc... We really do... Less pretty (for now) more fuctionality....

Posix:
hi, the posix bountie will allow a better posix support in ou clib (instead of need a ixemul for example). the imediate event will be the ksh able to work...having ksh we can build apps using the native enviroment (probably we will have aros building unde aros (self compile))...it make porting much easier imo...as you can build and test in the native env!

we have lots of tools ported that is usefullless cause the missing nix shell...so, will be one work that will affect, for better, lot of pasted works.

Dock:
I have no problem to change from starmenu to dock in the bounty. (thats nothing i really thinked about, i just added startmenu cause we have a skeleton code, its not my main goal in that bountie (the main goal is mouse wheel support in wanderer and tooltypes))

Hardware:

the hardware is a worry, imo, i agree with you...

i dont think your ideia of a linux/aros integrated is bad, in publicity field it would be really nice (look winarosmax for example) (but in tech pov is fake...no progress will be made to the OS itself) (aros max is cool, but it didnt created anything)

in the gfx driver field, is doable ,not easy, to make a wrap for use the X drivers...but it will be only for gfx! (that will be a good shot)

the way I would go is bounty for specific (but wide used) chipsets bountie, like dammo did with nvidia

sounblaster, pcspeaker etc for soundcard
mpu401 for midi driver

...i cant really say exactly , but as it IS YOUR bountie you should look for the hardware you acess. (course try to be wide)...3d support for nvidia and a openGL support comes in my mind atm.

i hope i have helped you clarify your questions,
:cheers:

I have no problems with doing this. Though I probably won't do $100 on just that one. And I don't know about Posix, I have no idea what we would be using those features for. Just like dbus, we got it. What are going to use it for???

If I do this I will not be able to to it later for this (lunux) bounty. I don't want this to be swept under the table, discarded, tossed away... I am very serious about this, hardware support. We don't need all our hardware support to be Native from the very beginning. I have seen too many really good ideas just dissaper around here over the years that I have been following Aros.

On the other had, if someone comes up with a bounty that is geared towrd makeing hardware support eaiser, then I would suppot that also.

Maybe ask CoolCat to change his Start Menu one, and add money to that?

But yes, that would be handy too ... of course $100 in one lump is more of an incentive than $10 here and $10 there ...

I will consider that also.

on that like of thought. How about a bounty for a dock app for Aros?

I don't think it's a waste of time, but it may be worth holding onto your money until, say, TCP/IP is done.

Personally I'd go for adding to CoolCat's existing small bounties on fixing some of the small stuff (you know I'm nuts about IconX :D) and after that on splitting the kernel to enable GPL licensed drivers/modules.

OK, I understand.

Here is my question to everyone in general.

Is this a wate of my time?

I do not have the knoledge to write up a reasonable set of requirements. I don't want to do up something insane. I could give it a try but I really feel someone with more understanding could do a much better job.

I will keep the offer open till Friday. If someone will do up the requirements I will donate the initial money to get it started.

This is if people still think that this is a good idea. If not I will simply drop it. No harm, no fowl.